This past weekend there was a great article in the Jerusalem Post about Yoatzot Halakah and women learning and paskening in general. They interviewed Rabbanit Henken from Nishmat, who is responsible for founding the Yoetzet program on the issue of women paskening in general and specifically with regards to hilchos nidah. "For a good quarter of a century I was saying to myself that this has got to exist. On the one hand, many women were not asking questions. Some women were observing too leniently. Many women were observing too stringently, and that needed to be remedied. Many women were having very serious problems, problems that were creating a lot of pain, a lot of grief. I realized that the solutions to these problems lay in creating something that we had never had before - women who were educated on the highest level on these laws in order to be able to be a resource for other women."
Rabbanit Henken recognized that there were MANY WOMEN who did not feel comfortable taking their nidah shaalos to their rav and as a result were not following the halachah properly either by being too lenient or too stringent. As a result she founded the yoetzet program and it has been a huge success. According to Rabbanit Henken "to date, the 61 graduates of the program have addressed more than 100,000 inquiries from within Israel and abroad". I am going to go out on a limb here and say that of the 100,000 shaalos that have come to these women a good 50% would not have been asked were it not for these women able to answer these questions. And further more, these women serve as more than just Yoatzot. These women are getting questions on all types of issues and are serving as counselors as well. "Racheli Schprecher, who works on the halachic hot line, describes some of the phone calls she receives from both men and women, which touch on a range of health issues, contraceptive side effects, fertility and in some cases, bizarre travel scenarios".
There are many rabbonim in the Dati Leumi community in Israel and the Centrist Modern Orthodox community in America that are strongly behind the idea, including Rav Schachter who said in a shiur that he thinks it is a good idea. Even Rabbi Willig said that while he is against the idea, he sees that there is a need for them, and in fact many of the yoatzot in the NY area turn to Rabbi Willig with their shaalos. There are others however, who feel that Yoatzot are not good for our community and in the end they are going to cause great grief to our community. They maintain that having yoatzot will eventually communicate that rabbanim do not want to be involved in the concerns of their female congregants and even that they ideally should not be involved in women’s issues and in piskei Halachah for women. Further more they assert that they believe that believe having yoatzot is serving us poorly, and if they are successful, it will take us in an undesirable direction and women in the community and it will eventually communicate that rabbanim do not want to be involved in the concerns of their female congregants and even that they ideally should not be involved in women’s issues and in piskei Halachah for women.
While I understand why there would be this opinion, that a yoetzet might infringe on the Rabbi-Congregant relationship and I would also agree that a yoetzet is not for everyone, the numbers speak for themselves. As I posted a number of moths ago, the Yoetzet in the Teaneck area has gotten over 1000 shaalos over the past year, and that is with out her being promoted by the majority of the rabbonim in the community. Many of these shaalos would never be asked at all if it were not for her. If rabbonim feel that this takes away from the Rabbi-Congregant relationship why not have their wives train as yoatzot thereby creating a partnership? At this juncture in Jewish History women play a huge role in Jewish communal life, should they not also have the ability answer shaalos such as kashrus and nidah. If a woman is knowledgeable in these areas why can she not be trained to answer shaalos? Further more if a woman does not feel comfortable going to male Rav with her nidah shaalos and she would rather wait or pasken for herself than ask them and now there is a mechanism in place whereby she can comfortably ask these and other personal shaalos to a women who is knowledgbeale in this area, why is that a problem? It's a toeles that we have educated our women so well that they now feel comfortable taking leadership roles and more responsibility. Isn't that what we want, torah hameviah lidei maaseh?
There is a telling comment on Hirhurim regarding this issue: "There is a yo'etzet in... community (Teaneck/Bergenfield) who was hired by Cong. Rinat Yisrael. The original idea had been that she would be a community yo'etzet and that all the O shuls would participate in hiring (and p-aying) her. None of the other O rabbis, however, would agree to join, so only Rinat is officially participating. I use the word "officially" because in her first two years on the job, she fielded over 1000 questions (averaging about 10/week), and many of the questions came from women who were members of other shuls....I was told that there were a not insignificant number of women who told the yo'etzet that this was the first time they were asking a shai'lah concerning matters of taharat hamispacha". Although the yoetzet serves the entire community and women from every shul come to her only one shul has taken on the burden of paying her? Huh? What are they gaining by not promoting her?
Rabbanit Henken recognized that there were MANY WOMEN who did not feel comfortable taking their nidah shaalos to their rav and as a result were not following the halachah properly either by being too lenient or too stringent. As a result she founded the yoetzet program and it has been a huge success. According to Rabbanit Henken "to date, the 61 graduates of the program have addressed more than 100,000 inquiries from within Israel and abroad". I am going to go out on a limb here and say that of the 100,000 shaalos that have come to these women a good 50% would not have been asked were it not for these women able to answer these questions. And further more, these women serve as more than just Yoatzot. These women are getting questions on all types of issues and are serving as counselors as well. "Racheli Schprecher, who works on the halachic hot line, describes some of the phone calls she receives from both men and women, which touch on a range of health issues, contraceptive side effects, fertility and in some cases, bizarre travel scenarios".
There are many rabbonim in the Dati Leumi community in Israel and the Centrist Modern Orthodox community in America that are strongly behind the idea, including Rav Schachter who said in a shiur that he thinks it is a good idea. Even Rabbi Willig said that while he is against the idea, he sees that there is a need for them, and in fact many of the yoatzot in the NY area turn to Rabbi Willig with their shaalos. There are others however, who feel that Yoatzot are not good for our community and in the end they are going to cause great grief to our community. They maintain that having yoatzot will eventually communicate that rabbanim do not want to be involved in the concerns of their female congregants and even that they ideally should not be involved in women’s issues and in piskei Halachah for women. Further more they assert that they believe that believe having yoatzot is serving us poorly, and if they are successful, it will take us in an undesirable direction and women in the community and it will eventually communicate that rabbanim do not want to be involved in the concerns of their female congregants and even that they ideally should not be involved in women’s issues and in piskei Halachah for women.
While I understand why there would be this opinion, that a yoetzet might infringe on the Rabbi-Congregant relationship and I would also agree that a yoetzet is not for everyone, the numbers speak for themselves. As I posted a number of moths ago, the Yoetzet in the Teaneck area has gotten over 1000 shaalos over the past year, and that is with out her being promoted by the majority of the rabbonim in the community. Many of these shaalos would never be asked at all if it were not for her. If rabbonim feel that this takes away from the Rabbi-Congregant relationship why not have their wives train as yoatzot thereby creating a partnership? At this juncture in Jewish History women play a huge role in Jewish communal life, should they not also have the ability answer shaalos such as kashrus and nidah. If a woman is knowledgeable in these areas why can she not be trained to answer shaalos? Further more if a woman does not feel comfortable going to male Rav with her nidah shaalos and she would rather wait or pasken for herself than ask them and now there is a mechanism in place whereby she can comfortably ask these and other personal shaalos to a women who is knowledgbeale in this area, why is that a problem? It's a toeles that we have educated our women so well that they now feel comfortable taking leadership roles and more responsibility. Isn't that what we want, torah hameviah lidei maaseh?
There is a telling comment on Hirhurim regarding this issue: "There is a yo'etzet in... community (Teaneck/Bergenfield) who was hired by Cong. Rinat Yisrael. The original idea had been that she would be a community yo'etzet and that all the O shuls would participate in hiring (and p-aying) her. None of the other O rabbis, however, would agree to join, so only Rinat is officially participating. I use the word "officially" because in her first two years on the job, she fielded over 1000 questions (averaging about 10/week), and many of the questions came from women who were members of other shuls....I was told that there were a not insignificant number of women who told the yo'etzet that this was the first time they were asking a shai'lah concerning matters of taharat hamispacha". Although the yoetzet serves the entire community and women from every shul come to her only one shul has taken on the burden of paying her? Huh? What are they gaining by not promoting her?
If there are hundreds of women who feel more comfortable talking with a woman about these most intimate issues why is it being marginalized by many rabbonim in our own community? These women are not doing it with any kind of feminist agenda but l'shem shamayim to help other women better follow hilchot nidah in a more comfortable setting. If a woman wants a leadership role in our communities have we not come far enough that we can give it to her. I personally know of a mashgichah who has been involved in kashrus for decades. If there is a need for it why keep women in elementary roles? Did our women not break out of the kitchen decades ago? I understand that there is the "slippery slope" argument but we are discussing halachah here and ways to further halachah and make following it more comfortable and resourses more accessible. Should this not be something our entire community is 100% behind? We who believe in the women's role in Jewish life is more than raising babies and cooking but that women are an integral part of Jewish communal life and that educating them is as important as educating men. Is this not the best way to teach our children that we truly believe in what we preach?
32 comments:
I'm anti.
but i think you already knew that...
The Yoatzot Halakah in Teaneck/Bergenfield is more knoledgable then most men. She is also more tzniut and a bigger ba'alat chessed then her stuck-up/faker Bergenfield neighbors. She clearly stands out head and shoulders from the women in our community.
That's because you are a caveman who thinks his wife belongs pregnant in the kitchen.
Anon, as I pointed out in my original post, it is laughable to think that anyone with any knowledge of who the yoetzet in Bergen County is and what her background is that they would think that her intentions are anything other than l'shem shamayim.
I'm also against the whole yoetzet thing. I understand that there are women who aren't comfortable talking to a Rabbi. Well, Judaism isn't easy. Sometimes you're not comfortable, and you do it anyway. Lefum tzaarah agra.
The original premise of Modern Orthodoxy was that Jews could integrate into modern society while still maintaining their traditional Jewish beliefs. The yoetzet program goes against that, as it changes the belief that in Judaism, women aren't meant to pasken shailos. Yes, I think women should be knowledgeable in certain halachos, including niddah and kashrus, but that's for themselves, not to pasken for others. As you said, it's a slippery slope. YCT has already started down this slope, with their Rabbanit program. I don't want it to become the norm, and I fear the yoetzet will lead to it.
From a female perspective--all the other commenters being male so far--you cannot imagine how complicated many of our rabbanim make it to ask a shailoh about a female concern. Many of them require the husband to be the intermediary who brings the question and takes back the answer to the wife. And if there are further questions raised due to the answer the whole rigamarole begins again. Even where a rav will deal with a woman directly there is some incredible hemming and hawing going on until an answer is spit out. Yup, some of those rabbanim are just plain embarrassed to be speaking to a woman about intimate matters.
And the reverse is true as well--many women do NOT ask the shailohs that they really need to ask because of embarrassment at speaking to a male about intimate questions. I think one woman summed it up rather well when she said that, having asked her shul Rav a family relations question, she was embarrassed to be in his presence again, and so basically avoided going to shul if there was a chance that she might come into his vicinity.
The idea of a yoetzet is long overdue, and kol hakavod to all of them who are doing a great service for the women of Klal. More are needed. And to those who hide behind the "slippery slope" idea, keep in mind that "slippery slope" is a logical FALLACY, not a firm basis for a logical argument.
The position of the rabbonim in the Teaneck/Bergenfield community is unclear to me. Have they made any public satements for or against aside from not paying her? Are they referring women to her? Have there been any statements from the RCBC? I'd love to hear how they feel now that there are a few years of experience behind us.
Prof K. I agree. It is easy for us men to sit on the side and say how horrible an idea this is but the reality is that there are people not following hilchos nidah because they do not want to speak to a male Rav about their problems and they are embarrassed to bring them questions. If the women feel uncomfortable is it not the responsibility of the community to put something in place to cure this, especially if we have the resources and people willing to do it.
Anon, I can't speak for all of the rabbonim but many more have voiced their opposition to the idea than have come out to support it. I do not think the RCBC has taken a stand on it.
agree with Proud MO
Though I would be hesistant to label myself "MO" (as opposed to "O"), I am so glad this program has been a success. Is there a Yoetzet assigned to Baltimore? The Star-K recently had a training for women mashgiachs.
I was taken aback by Rabbi Neuberger's comments on the yoatzot halacha in the Hamevaser interview. I can understand the basis for his position but his statements seem extreme -- particularly when he said that it will cause the community "great grief" in the future. I was also surprised by his comments in light of my understanding that practically all of the MO/Centrist/dati leumi gedolim in the US and Israel are either supportive of the yoetzet program or at least are not opposed.
It is well known that the Yoetzet in Teaneck consults with Rabbi Willig for all of her sheelos. Anyone who is familiar with her and her work would find it very hard to understand how one could say that her presence and work in the Teaneck community could eventually bring "great grief" to the community.
Proud MO,
You say "Well, Judaism isn't easy. Sometimes you're not comfortable, and you do it anyway." A rather facile statement to make when it isn't you who has to take questions of a highly personal nature to a rav who is male. This isn't just uncomfortable--with our emphasis on female tsnius the thought of discussing highly personal issues with a male keeps hundreds of women from asking the questions they need answered.
I wonder just how "uncomfortable" a male might be (and would he call it "only" uncomfortable)if he had to ask a Rav a question about male sexual paraphernalia or functioning? We already have the answer to that in the secular world. Testicular and genital cancers and disorders are on the rise in the male population, despite there being well known and usable treatments. Why? Men have an aversion to discussing the function of their genitalia and in having an examination of such.
"..it changes the belief that in Judaism, women aren't meant to pasken shailos."
Wow, we have now elevated this to one of the 13 (now 14!) principles! Rambam would be interested, I'm sure.
It is NOT a "belief in Judaism"! It is a long held, customary position which may, indeed, be a necessary one. It also may not. But, like any halachic position; it can be examined and discussed. It certainly is not a pillar upon which Judaism stands or falls.
But I digressed. A well-informed and properly nuanced approach to Torah is what we should strive for. One that accurately interprets and applies the notions and laws of Hashem's Torah.
When I was young, I heard shiur from Rav Nahum Eliezer Rabinowtiz. He once posed the hypothetical question, 'may a woman be a rabbi'? Part of his answer then was, quite simply, if she is the most knowledgeable person in the community, she may answer the questions. Would it be better that people not act according to halacha, because in addition to ignorance, they suffer from pride? Most of the time, answering questions in halacha doesn't require innovation. It requires thorough knowledge, understanding, and the ability to arrive at practical application. In the end, if the answer is that of a published figure or known position, there isn't much 'paskening' in the matter.
I would argue that these Yoatzot are in that position today. Not only do they know the halacha as well as your average community rav in this particular area; they have a much better understanding than most in the subtleties of a woman's life and physiological function. In many cases they are better informed medically. THEY are not advocating a position of women rabbis; they are advocating a position of both tzniut and correct halacha. INCORRECT or ill-informed behaviours by families that don't ask is not only a possible sin; it distorts Torah for the future as well. The Yoatzot are helping prevent and correct that.
The objections to the yoatzot above from some of the commenters are based on a misunderstanding of the halacha and a misunderstanding as to how the yoatzot operate.
First, the yoatzot consult with Rabbinic experts when confronted with a difficult sheela.
Second, one commenter above stated that women cannot answer halachik questions if they are qualified to do so. That is incorrect. You should listen to the follwoing MP3 shiur from Rav Schachter in which RHS says that a woman who is knowledgable in an area of halacha can pasken sheelos in the area in which she is knowledgable. He even specifically mentions Hilchos Niddah. He talks about this beginning at minute 14 of the following link. http://tinyurl.com/nqelux
Rabbi Neuberger even admits in the Hamevaser article that most poskim hold that a qualified woman can answer halchik sheelos (although Rabbi Neuberger diasgrees with those poskim and he holds that they cannot do so). The objection to women Rabbis has nothing to so with them answering halachik questions when qualified to do so; it rather stems from issues relating to whether they can have a position of "serara" in the community and tzinus issues as well. The yoatzot do not have any "serara" position and they operate outside of the public sphere so there is no tznius issue.
Actually, I think we should be promoting Yoatzot as the newest humra. Then it will certainly be widely accepted.
The logic would go like this. Now, if a woman has a question about a private matter, she has to go to a rav (a man!) and tell him and consult with him. At best, she tells her husband (another man!), and he goes to the rav.
Just like some neighborhoods are promoting separate lines for men and women in stores, and seperate buses, we way there should be separate halachic consultation! Men should keep to themselves on these matters, and women and should keep to themselves! This will promote tzniut in the community, through which we will avert all sorts of tragedies such as drug smugglers being arrested and prosecuted in foreign countries.
What is seriously sad is that it really does promote a healthy sense of privacy and tzniut. In some ways, women have a greater opportunity for a normative tzniut than in previous generations, while pursuing correct information and care. Just like they can choose to go to a woman doctor, with whom they naturally may be more comfortable and therefore more thorough in pursuing health options; going to a Yoetzet to ask and learn will almost certainly promote that women will be more knowledgeable and able to choose well and correctly.
Mordechai, although it is a great idea and I agree with you that as far as tzniut is concerned it is most likely a better option, but this has more to do with rabbinic control than it does halacha or rabbi congregant relationship. If these rabbonim were honest they would be welcoming this idea with open arms but as the rabbi even admits in his article, it takes away a vital job function from them thereby minimizing their control over our lives.
Since when did you become a Sephardi? is it the same time you went off the derech and became modern?
According to the Chazon ish one who is 'mitpallel" with the wrong ha'vara is not yotzi tefillah. But then again, dian de'malchuta dina, you don't need to daven since it is not the law of the land.
you modernishe are pathetic!
Nobody likes my new 'humra' idea? ;-D
HF,
I have to say that, after rereading Rav Neuberger's comments, I don't read him like you do. I think his comments were measured and sincere, though I don't agree with his take on the Yoatzot issue. I don't see any indication that this is about control or power trip. I think maybe you read into his comments intentions that aren't really there. I even see his concern, sort of; but I think it is easily remedied.
Yeah, I agree with Scher here and am down with the yoatzot. I think the reason the "haters" aren't into it is that they see it as women deciding halachic matters that were traditionally the place of only male rabbis to decide. The thing is there's a huge difference between being "POSEK" the halacha and KNOWING the halacha. If she's just informing them of halachot that were already decided upon long ago there's far from anything wrong with that from a Talmudic perspective. Anyway, it's rare that a totally new nida case will come up now, after 2,000 years of she'elot.
Mordechai I believe that he is sincere as well, I just think that on this one point he is off the mark. Most rabbonim at this point have at least an assistant because they are so busy they don't have time to get to everything. Does it not make sense that the thing which is most time consuming should be handed off to someone else who is qualified as well? At the end of the day it is tznius. In my humble opinion it is far more tznua to have a woman looking at and paskening these types of shaalos than a man. Do you not agree?
Permit me to take the conversation in another direction. It's my anecdotal experience that pulpit Rabbis are often hard pressed for time given their multiple responsibilities (don't get me started on the need for a community and a Rav to agree on priorities). IMVHO unless there is some real connection being made on run of the mill nida shailot, why wouldn't it be a good thing to subcontract this out and use the time to visit the sick, console the mourners, give shiurim....
KT
Joel Rich
Someone mentioned that this particular yoetzet goes to Rav Willig with the "big" shaalos.
I propose a compromise. There are some basic issues that any woman should know and is taught before the wedding. On these issues, the yoetzet can provide a reminder of a generally undisputed halacha - this does give rabbis some breathing room. On any other shaaloh, the yoetzet should be a go-between between the woman and the posek of the woman's choice - whether it's a rav or rosh yeshiva (which gets into another part of Rabbi Neuberger's interview which is a separate discussion). The yoetzet should know what questions to ask the questioner in order to put together the information necessary to issues a psak and how to present the shaaloh to the rav. This avoids issues of inconsistent psak depending on whether the husband or wife presents the shaaloh.
If this can be the clear arrangement between the yoetzet and local rabbis (i.e., the yoetzet will not pasken at all and basically tell over halachos which are basic, from chosson or kallah classes and otherwise serve to gather information and contact the appropriate rav or rosh yeshiva) I think more support could be garnered from community rabbis at large. Also, the yoetzet should encourage the questioner, in cases in which she deems appropriate, to contact the posek directly, if there are personal circumstances involved or a specialized psak is necessary. Leaving the role too open-ended makes the rabbis nervous.
Anon 1:08,
The role you're proposing doesn't require a Yoetzet, and her thorough education. I will tell you bluntly that some of the yoatzot know hilchot nidah better than some of the community rabbanim. Plain and simple. What you're proposing, almost any knowledgeable woman could do. Rebbetzins often have done so, without having the education that a yoetzet has.
What's more, given the number of questions already being posed to yoatzot, I think they are already pretty well established. This will only continue to grow further. What's more, I will hazard a guess that even without much more rabbinic support, we are going to see more women from across the spectrum, including those whose local rabbanim don't support this initiative, turning to yoatzot. I suspect this is a done deal. The reality and time will work their effect to bring around many of the rabbanim who aren't in favor.
Mordechai,
That was my post - I meant to sign it.
Anyway, the need for education goes to what questions to ask. Based on my recent studying of these halachos, it is so important to know which facts to seek from the questioner and only someone who knows the halachos well knows to find out what the relevant facts are exactly.
Anon, this will not solve anything. Why do we need any kind of compamise? These women are trained to answer these sheelos (often better than are some rabbonim) so why do we need the rav's involvment at all unless it is something she feels she is not qualified to answer and needs to bring to someone (as many rabbonim do as well)? Why is the yoetzet viewed in such a negative light when she is assisting both the rabbonim and the community? In this community some of the rabbonim need to give crazy Kulos just so some women will go to begin with. Would this not assist more women to feel more comfortable with the process and perhaps get more of them to better observe the mitzvah?
I think the idea of Yoetzet is wqonderful. It is a pity that they did not have them when I was a younger woman.
I don't think you should dismiss the slippery slope as easily as you do in your post. Throughtout Halacha there are Gedarim that are set up for exactly that reason. This female ordination (that's what it really is) has the potential to lead to a serious divide in Orthodox Judaism. An example can be found in today's Riverdale Press:
http://riverdalepress.com/full.php?sid=10518¤t_edition=2009-11-12
Just as lubavitch is well along the road to Christianity, this female ordination is beginning to put MO down the road of Conservativisim.
It's a shame because I like the idea of a Yoetzet and what she bring to the community, I just think the slippery slope is too steep.
In the post above, should = shouldn't.
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