Baruch Hashem we still have some true gedolim, men of true character that are willing to stand up to the axis of evil and charedi tyranny. Rav Shlomo Amar Shlita the Rishon L' Tzion wrote an order barring R' Abraham Sherman from any case dealing with geirus. R' Sherman, as you may recall is the guy who nullified all of Rav Druckman's geirus. A move Rav Druckman himself called "evil" in a speech he gave in Teaneck that I had the honor of attending. Although some in charedi world are angered by this move (and I am sure there will be rioting and garbage can burning) it is the right thing to do and Rav Amar should be commended for it.
For the last year or so there has been this move in Both Israel by R' Sherman and his charedi ilk and in America Leib Tropper to uproot and overturn geirus, a mass move that as far as I can tell (and I am sure if I am wrong it will be pointed out in the comment section) is unprecedented in Jewish history and at least modern Jewish history of the last 300 years. Does the torah not command us to "love the ger because we were one geirim", are we not supposed to do everything we can to work with and include these people in "the tent" of the torah? Where do these people get the gaul to overturn geirus? How dare they throw the lives of thousands of people into jeopardy and ruin generations of people?
Leib Tropper went so far as to uproot the geirus of a woman WHO HE WAS PERSONALY MEGAYER because she was seen wearing pants in public.
Rav Amar issued the following statement "Groups have taken advantage of the controversy surrounding these cases to attempt to limit the jurisdiction of the Rabbinical Courts. As a result, I am exercising my power... to personally choose panels of judges that will rule on conversion cases."
As predicted the charedim have responded and are threatening to "punish" Rav Amar (maybe they will send him to his room for not listening to Rav Elyashiv) and in a statement the Mafia said "If reports regarding Amar's letter are true, our rabbis will come out with a very serious reaction. Rabbi Amar has crossed a red line and he is directly undermining the halachic validity of conversions in Israel."
HE is undermining the halachinc validity of conversions in Israel? What about R' Sherman who took it upon himself to besmirch the name of a gadol and nullify his conversions. You people are undermining halachah in general! YOU people are so far over the red line you crossed so long ago that it is not even a memory. Thank G-d for a man like Rav Amar and others that are not affraid to stand up to your mafia like threats, if this took place in America I would recommend Rav Amar call the police and report on a threat to his life.
It's funny how the charedi tyranny so closely resembles Islamo Fascism in many ways except for this one where the Muslims want to convert everybody and the charedim want to nullify everyone’s conversions. I was always taught that once you are in there is no getting out. Does this mean that soon the charedim are going to nullify my status as a Jew as well? I have no doubt that this is coming in a few years. They are going to begin deciding who poses kedushas Yisrael and who does not. Where does this stop. They want to be like the Mullahs in Iran and control every aspect of religious life in Israel without allowing for descent.
We should all Daven this shabbos for Rav Amars well being and for those who wish him harm to "Meherah Yikareisu".
For the last year or so there has been this move in Both Israel by R' Sherman and his charedi ilk and in America Leib Tropper to uproot and overturn geirus, a mass move that as far as I can tell (and I am sure if I am wrong it will be pointed out in the comment section) is unprecedented in Jewish history and at least modern Jewish history of the last 300 years. Does the torah not command us to "love the ger because we were one geirim", are we not supposed to do everything we can to work with and include these people in "the tent" of the torah? Where do these people get the gaul to overturn geirus? How dare they throw the lives of thousands of people into jeopardy and ruin generations of people?
Leib Tropper went so far as to uproot the geirus of a woman WHO HE WAS PERSONALY MEGAYER because she was seen wearing pants in public.
Rav Amar issued the following statement "Groups have taken advantage of the controversy surrounding these cases to attempt to limit the jurisdiction of the Rabbinical Courts. As a result, I am exercising my power... to personally choose panels of judges that will rule on conversion cases."
As predicted the charedim have responded and are threatening to "punish" Rav Amar (maybe they will send him to his room for not listening to Rav Elyashiv) and in a statement the Mafia said "If reports regarding Amar's letter are true, our rabbis will come out with a very serious reaction. Rabbi Amar has crossed a red line and he is directly undermining the halachic validity of conversions in Israel."
HE is undermining the halachinc validity of conversions in Israel? What about R' Sherman who took it upon himself to besmirch the name of a gadol and nullify his conversions. You people are undermining halachah in general! YOU people are so far over the red line you crossed so long ago that it is not even a memory. Thank G-d for a man like Rav Amar and others that are not affraid to stand up to your mafia like threats, if this took place in America I would recommend Rav Amar call the police and report on a threat to his life.
It's funny how the charedi tyranny so closely resembles Islamo Fascism in many ways except for this one where the Muslims want to convert everybody and the charedim want to nullify everyone’s conversions. I was always taught that once you are in there is no getting out. Does this mean that soon the charedim are going to nullify my status as a Jew as well? I have no doubt that this is coming in a few years. They are going to begin deciding who poses kedushas Yisrael and who does not. Where does this stop. They want to be like the Mullahs in Iran and control every aspect of religious life in Israel without allowing for descent.
We should all Daven this shabbos for Rav Amars well being and for those who wish him harm to "Meherah Yikareisu".
8 comments:
someone finally got the stones....
I dont think you can retract a geirus if it alreayd happened, wait.... I know you cant retract a geirus, if it happened it happened.
I believe that their argument is that it was not chal l'mafreah because there technically was no kabalat mitzvot.
"Does this mean that soon the charedim are going to nullify my status as a Jew as well?" Isn't that the end result when they hound and ostracize those who don't follow their "brand" of frumkeit? Kudos to Rav Amar for standing up and saying enough is enough.
Kol hakavod to Rav Amar. Now if North American rabbonim can just follow suit...
Geirus really isn't that simple. In order for a geirus to work, the person really has to accept all the mitzvos. That's why conversions just for marriage don't really work - they're not really accepting the mitzvos, they just want to marry a Jew, so they say they do. I've heard of a case where a woman converted, they thought she was sincere, and everything was fine. 25 years later, her husband died, and she immediately reverted back to her former religion. She said she only converted for the marriage, and didn't really care for Judaism at all. She said she lied at all the meeting she had during the actual conversion, just to be able to have the conversion.
Would you say that such a conversion was ok?
Then, I know of someone else. A girl I know converted as a young teen, and was really doing well. Keeping the mitzvos, davening every day, etc.
Then, she went to college. She fell in with the hippies, and decided that Orthodox Judaism wasn't for her. She doesn't keep all the mitzvos anymore. At the time she converted, she was sincere, and it was a good conversion. Now, she's not following everything, only some things. That wouldn't fly if she was converting now, but that doesn't matter - at the time of the conversion, she was really sincere.
It's a very fine line, and you have to have people who really know the convert making the decisions on what was good and what wasn't. Nobody else knows enough about what the person's intent really was. Seeing a woman in pants 10 years after the conversion shouldn't be enough to nullify it.
But look at these two examples:
The first case is exactly what Rav Sherman is railing against. He believes that all Rav Druckman's converts are just like this and that's why he's nullifying their conversions.
The second case in the opposite - she was sincere at the time which means the geirus was good. Now she sounds like someone that wouldn't care if it was revoked.
Neither is the case of the ger who converted sincerely and is still sincere.
Garnel, you're right as far as parents go, but sometimes it's more complicated, such as when there are already kids involved.
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